Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Bike aesthetic/mechanical/electrical modifications and general wrenching advice.
User avatar
Prof J
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 337
Joined: May 29th, 2019
Location: Oregon, USA
Bike(s): '19 SE +
x 29
x 39

Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Prof J » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:23 pm


I'm most likely going to go to an aftermarket ECU for fueling, timing. etc. I've had a PC3 on an old Suzuki M109, and after selling that bike, had a ZX-14, turbo'ed it and was running the Bazzaz unit when it first came out. Bazzaz folks were great, down a few blocks from home, and they used my bike as a test animal for their 14 setup. Thank goodness the harness has been updated to plug in to the injectors easily, prior you had to cut and splice into each FI.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who's running an aftermarket fuel
ECU/piggyback and :

- what are your thoughts now that you've had it on your H2**?

- Have you used other systems in the past, and if so, how'd you compare
your current setup satisfaction to other systems you've used?

- Is your setup able to store a secondary map, so that you can switch
maps out by a button push, or some easy method?

- If it allows for data logging, are you finding using that data, and making
changes to your map/s, works effectively?

- Best points of your setup?

- Cons or things you'd add to make it better for you?

- Other thoughts?

Thank you,

Jeff
0 x

User avatar
Champ87
Medium Boost
Medium Boost
Posts: 414
Joined: Apr 9th, 2018
Location: NW Indiana US
Bike(s): Current bikes: 2018 H2 SX SE, '73 Yamaha RD350, '74 Kawasaki H1E
x 177
x 289

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Champ87 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:35 am


Prof J wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:23 pm
I'm interested in hearing from anyone who's running an aftermarket fuel
ECU/piggyback
In the time I've been on this site I can't recall a post from anyone deciding to use a PC or other piggyback system. A few have asked but, once they learn more about the H2 SX, they discover that the stock ECU has plenty of options for tuning and a piggyback unit offers no advantages.

Secondary maps? As you know the H2 SX has 3 Power Modes. Each can be independently tuned. They can be switched on the fly - all you have to do is close the throttle and press the button change mode. Oh, you have to look where you're going too!

For each power mode there are Fuel Maps for TPS based fueling and IAP (Manifold Pressure) based fueling for lower throttle openings.
By the way - each TPS map has 798 cells that can be adjusted one by one or in groups. Each IAP map has 1216 data points to keep obsessive fiddlers busy for quite some time!

Ignition Maps - for each Power Mode and Neutral. Each can be adjusted by cylinder if required.

Each Power Mode also has it's own ETV Maps to map the relationship between throttle grip opening and throttle valve opening so you can adjust the throttle response. Within each power mode there are 7 ETV maps - separate maps for each of the 6 gears + neutral.
If you're interested, there are 442 data points for each ETV map (and still 442 if you're not). This is why Vcyclenut wasn't able to respond to your request for maps when you said you wanted all of them. Just too many to post.

We also have Fuel Trim maps (1 for each gear), Upper Injector Maps (1 for each cylinder under each Power Mode) for both TPS and IAP, Ignition Dwell Maps and KEBC Engine Braking Maps (again 1 for each of the 6 gears + neutral).

In addition there are a number of individual settings that can be adjusted - Red Line, Idle Speed, O2 Sensor, Butterfly Valve, Secondary Air, Rev Limiter.

From that lengthy description you can see that a competent and experienced tuner has many options for tweaking and fine tuning. All that's needed is the software and an additional wire added to one of the ECU connectors. Woolich seems to be pretty much the go to package for H2 SX.
Prof J wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:23 pm
If it allows for data logging, are you finding using that data, and making changes to your map/s, works effectively?
If you have Woolich software you can add a Log Box for data logging and use the recorded data. The software has an AutoTune feature that can use data from either the software Engine Data Screen or from the Log Box, to adjust AFR to reach a target.

All that information looks like a sales pitch for Woolich. It isn't - I'm giving you a roundup of the key features to allow you to make an informed decision. Woolich have some good tutorials and videos in the Support section of their site. Might be smart to check out some of those before making a decison to buy PC, Bazzaz, Woolich or other tuning product.

I do have Woolich software but I've used it only as a tool to learn about the bike setup, make a couple of minor adjustments and clear some error codes. I didn't buy the Log Box setup. For tuning I'm more than happy to leave all the hard work to Vcyclenut. The results of his work are excellent.
3 x

Champ87
It's amazing how fast you can go when you take your time.

User avatar
Prof J
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 337
Joined: May 29th, 2019
Location: Oregon, USA
Bike(s): '19 SE +
x 29
x 39

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Prof J » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:12 am


Champ87,

Excellent info, thank you.

I'm surprised, I think, that no one, or very few folks have considered, or put up this type of interest/question. Maybe I'll have to take a step back. We'll see.

I don't think any of the in-depth map modification tables you'er referencing are available to the bike owner directly, other than mode switching, and other surface changes. Timing, AFR etc, with all the cells, are accessible to a 'tuner'. If there is software for the average 'Joe' H2SX bike owner, without paying for a setup, I'd enjoy hearing about that.

In the past, though I have used a tuner for an M109, and a short period for a ZX-14, I took over the tuning myself, as I was taught by the tuner I used. The Bazzaz system worked pretty well for that, and as I've shared elsewhere here, a timing map was not available via Bazzaz's software, so it had to be set static via something like a Muzzy timing plate, as example.

I am interested in hearing about Woolich, PC-V, new Bazzaz version owners, and other tuning setups as well. Always been an interest, and still is. Unless I am mistaken, the depth of the maps you reference, are available for tuners, which I have often used, and not for the home user.

Are there things with Woolich which you've found particularly interesting or helpful. Have you had other after market systems you could compare it with or against? Other thoughts about Woolich?

I have been reading up on some of vcyclenut's work, Brocks, Gadson's H2 work, Bazzaz does not seem connected to the H2SX bike yet, and any where else I can find into.

One of my interests is to have a system that does data logging, and hopefully have on board at least several maps, which can be selected and input by button push, or some other simple method. If I remember correctly, Bazzaz had that in 08/09 for the 14. The H2SX is intricate and complicated considerably more than the 14.

My current plan is to have a vcyclenut map.

It's going to be fun learning.

Thanks for sharing the info.
0 x

User avatar
PhukDD
Low Boost
Low Boost
Posts: 112
Joined: Apr 19th, 2019
Location: Around Phoenix
Bike(s): a green one
x 4
x 27

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by PhukDD » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:53 am


I had some custom flash put on as a baseline when I installed the Woolich kit with data logging. I did not like some of the setting of that setup, so last night using the data logging, switched things up. The reason I like the Woolich is everyone is different in their preferred setting, and the Woolich kit lets you fine tune it to your liking. The software analyses the data and makes suggestions. You can either reflash as they suggest or adjust manually. Not to mention if you ever wanted a different can or say filter, you can make adjustments in 20 mins vs having to pull that nose apart again to ship off the ecu. I am just learning the software now, fortunately I have a very knowledgeable friendly neighbor.
0 x

User avatar
Champ87
Medium Boost
Medium Boost
Posts: 414
Joined: Apr 9th, 2018
Location: NW Indiana US
Bike(s): Current bikes: 2018 H2 SX SE, '73 Yamaha RD350, '74 Kawasaki H1E
x 177
x 289

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Champ87 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:55 am


Prof J wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:12 am
I don't think any of the in-depth map modification tables you'er referencing are available to the bike owner directly...
Absolutely wrong. With the software you can access, view, modify, save all of the tables I mentioned.

Of course, you can't do much with it if you don't know what you're doing. And, if you have the knowledge, you need some way to measure the changes - access to a dyno. That applies to any software or any piggyback system.

The Woolich software with the Log Box will do everything Bazzaz would do and much more. With Autotune you can set target AFRs but, again, you need some way to measure. If that's something you don't want to get into then the option is to buy a pre-configured tune from Vcyclenut or Brock or go to a local tuner. That isn't what your question was about though.
0 x

Champ87
It's amazing how fast you can go when you take your time.

User avatar
Prof J
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 337
Joined: May 29th, 2019
Location: Oregon, USA
Bike(s): '19 SE +
x 29
x 39

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Prof J » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:16 am


Champ87 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:55 am
Prof J wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:12 am
I don't think any of the in-depth map modification tables you'er referencing are available to the bike owner directly...
Absolutely wrong. With the software you can access, view, modify, save all of the tables I mentioned.
Champs87,

I'm wondering if you and I are talking about different things.

Are you saying that the bikes maps are accessible to the average bike owner, via some Kawasaki type software, either already contained within the bike, or that you can get from Kawasaki ?

I don't think you are saying that, but I thought so initially.

As far as I understand, please correct me if I am wrong, a person can only get into the tables depths with some specific software, like Woolich, or some other vendor software, of have a tuner do it for you.

If I can get into my bikes map tables, without buying some vendor software, excellent.
0 x

User avatar
Prof J
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 337
Joined: May 29th, 2019
Location: Oregon, USA
Bike(s): '19 SE +
x 29
x 39

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Prof J » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:18 am


Prof J wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:16 am
Champ87 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:55 am
Prof J wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:12 am
I don't think any of the in-depth map modification tables you'er referencing are available to the bike owner directly...
Absolutely wrong. With the software you can access, view, modify, save all of the tables I mentioned.
Champs87,

I'm wondering if you and I are talking about the same thing, differently.

The bikes maps are not accessible to the average bike owner, without some type of ventor/tuner software. Do we agree on that?
0 x

User avatar
Prof J
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 337
Joined: May 29th, 2019
Location: Oregon, USA
Bike(s): '19 SE +
x 29
x 39

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Prof J » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:32 am


Yes, you and I are talking about the same thing.

An average 'Joe' can get into the system with the appropriate software, and can not, with out it.

I like learning the process. I'm surprised no one else has asked about these 'things'.

On the 14 forum, these topics were pretty busy back in 08/09, but it was a 'group' of us really. The majority of folks, not.
Last edited by Prof J on Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

User avatar
Drnick
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 231
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2018
Location: Pompano beach,Florida
Bike(s): Too many to list!
x 7
x 37

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Drnick » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:55 am


Are we talking about a PC 5 ? If so, there is a part # for it,
But there is no release date?! Wouldn’t hold my breath for this either 🤨
0 x

Velocitus Eradicus

User avatar
Prof J
Accelerating
Accelerating
Posts: 337
Joined: May 29th, 2019
Location: Oregon, USA
Bike(s): '19 SE +
x 29
x 39

Re: Who's running an aftermarket fuel ECU/piggyback and

Post by Prof J » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:37 am


Drnick wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:55 am
Are we talking about a PC 5 ? If so, there is a part # for it,
But there is no release date?! Wouldn’t hold my breath for this either 🤨
Drnick,

Yes, the PC-V, or any other aftermarket fueling/tuning gadget/software. The last system I used was Bazzaz's on 08/09. I did have a PC 3 before that. I think it was a 3.

Lots of advances since then and I'm going to install a system to look at the bikes mapping, and a gadget to do data logging. The Bazzaz could do data logging back then. I think they were the first up to do that for the common rider, but I could be wrong. The PC-V has a gadget which will log, and Woolich also, I believe.

I'm looking for practical feed back, pro and con, from users of those types of hardware/software setups.
0 x

Post Reply
meble kuchenne na wymiar warszawa cennik

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tonyph2sxse and 14 guests