What's the point of the supercharger?

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McNulty
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What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by McNulty » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:17 pm


So, I have a bit of an unusual question. I'm not quite sure I understand the benefits of the supercharger. I know Kawasaki claims it makes more power with better fuel efficiency. Is it really that simple? I always feel like I'm running out of gas as fast or even faster as the other guys I'm riding with, even tough most of the riding is below 6000 rpms.

Looking at the numbers, I don't think its very obvious. Keep in mind I have very little techincal insight, and have only been driving motorcycles for 3 years (this is my 4th season), so please enlighten me as to what im missing. :) So, our bikes engine makes about 200 HP, which I've seen gets reduced to about 170ish on its way down to the wheel. It weighs about 260 kgs, which as far as I've gathered is in large part because of the supercharger. Meaning the bike would weigh alot less without it. You get about 38 or so mpgs with normal riding.

Then we look at other fast sport bikes, which weigh about 210 kgs, make 200 hp (180ish on the wheel) and probably have about the same fuel consumption. The S1000RR for instance seems to get about 36 miles per gallon, which I believe isn't THAT much lower than our bike.

So, considering the S1000RRs lower weight, more/same HP numbers and comparable mpg, what benefits does the supercharger give our bikes?

Also we have the ZX1400. 1440 ccs, 200 HPs, no supercharger. Only weighs a bit more than the H2 SX.

I know a simple dyno tune unlocks 40ish more HPs on the rear wheel, briging it to about 210. However as I've gathered, there is almost no gain in the lower RPMs. So is this where the supercharger shines? Giving us 210 back wheel horse powers (aka about 250 from the engine)?

Don't get me wrong. I love my bike. I've owner 2 other bikes (2016 Ninja 650, and 2017 Z900), and tested about 10 others to a lesser extent, and none come even close to the joy of riding the H2 SX. I'd just like to understand what kind of "magic" the supercharger brings to the table, considering it adds 50ish kgs and a higher price tag to a motorcycle.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by Zdude » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:48 pm


Well, one thing your doing is comparing a "sport-touring" bike with a sport bike. Try comparing the H2 to the S1000RR or even the ZX14R. Now, my bike with the flash is nothing like the bike before the flash and would be very surprised if a stock ZX14R would run with it. I had a highly tuned 2013 ZX14R with an Ackropovic 4 into 1, full system, reflash, air filter and Powercommander and I know that bike wouldn't run with this H2SXSE beast. So, the supercharger is there to make a 1000cc bike act like a 1400 or 1500 cc bike. Just like my Whipple Supercharger on my Roush Mustang made that 4.6 engine act like a 454, that's what pressure does and it will certainly not give you great mileage if you play in the boost zone enough. I didn't buy mine looking for great mileage, I was looking for performance and somewhat of a comfortable ride. Now the bike should have in the vicinity of 220-225 horsepower at the rear wheel, now that is my idea of a sport-touring bike!
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by PhukDD » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:52 pm


I am no tech expert just a casual rider....but can say this. My last 2 bikes were 07 and ‘12 Zx10 s. I assume this bike has a similar engine with the added super charger. I thought my Zx10’s were fast. It took me a few weeks for my brain to adjust to how must faster this bike pulls. Even at let’s say 80 mph, it is not in the power curve. Drop to forth gear and hammer it, it takes off like a bat out of hell. This is with a stock bike....open it up and well ....good bye.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by Snakes709 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:57 am


I get far better gas mileage on my sx then any of my other bikes (zx6r, zx10r and zx14r). You gotta remember that this is a sport tourer, not a sport bike. Its taking the power of a sport bike and the features of a tourer bike and making it one fun bike
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by black-k1 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:49 am


You are looking at the wrong things when comparing outputs. While ultimate power is important, it's not the most important, especially on a machine designed for the road rather than the race track. Torque is what's king on the road. Power is just a measure of torque x RPM. More RPM gives more power for the same torque.

Most sports bikes, designed with a heavy track focus, are designed to produce maximum engine output high up the rev range. Ideal when you're riding flat out from curve to curve on a track with the rev needle bouncing around the red range and the engine screaming. Your average 4 cylinder sports 1000 produces around 75 - 80 lbft of torque at something like 10500 to 11500 rpm.

The ZZR1400/ZX14R produces just over 100 lbft of torque at 7500 to 8500 rpm. What's more, it produces much more torque further down the rev. range than a 1000 engine enabling stronger acceleration for longer without the need to change gear. Because of the higher torque output ultimate top end power, while roughly the same as the sports 1000, happens at a lower rpm. This, in turn means you can run higher gearing, this giving a more "relaxed" ride, to get the same rate of acceleration and same ultimate top speed (aerodynamics aside - which become way more important than power!!!).

One of the down sides of a 1400 though is that there are much bigger bits of metal "flying around" inside the engine, and these need to be controlled and managed, This, in turn, makes for heavier "chunky" components and more inertia.

As a result ultimate maximum rpm is reduced to avoid the engine throwing bits of itself away! Hence the matched top end power because a slower engine speed with more torque matches a faster engine speed with less torque. So, you can get the same result by either "screaming" a 1000 or being more relaxed on a 1400. For the road, especially on longer runs, the second option is often the preferred choice.

Enter the supercharger. This allows a 1000cc 4 cylinder engine to produce almost 90 lbft of torque at around 8600 rpm. For road use, that's a better than a "half way house" between the screaming 1000cc sports bikes and the relaxed 1400. Smaller engine components means less inertia but low down and mid-range torque to match a much larger engine. And, all of this is with a "neutered" engine. Get a reflash and the torque increases to around 100 lbft. That matches the 1400 engine!! :D

So, as a road rider you now get all the advantages of a 1400cc engine without a lot of the disadvantages. A very attractive option!! ;)

Now, to the bikes weight. The weight is NOT the supercharger. While I don't know what it actually weighs (help anyone???) it's a relatively small/light component. The problem is that, engine torque can be used to move the bike forward rapidly, or can be used to bend the bike in half!!! As the second option is not what we want, the frame and cycle components need to be up to the job of resisting being bent in half. More torque means "beefier" components. Thicker frame tubes, stronger swing arm etc. all come with a weight cost. Additionally, most sports 1000s are designed to handle a single person with the possibility of an occasional pillion on some. The H2 SX is designed to run with a pillion ... and luggage. That's another 80 to 130kg that the frame needs to manage while handling the sorts of forces associated with 150mph road speeds. Again, all of this adds weight. Compare the H2 SX to other sports tourers designed for 2 up plus luggage runs rather than rider only sports bikes and suddenly the weight doesn't seem so bad.

So, a long explanation. I hope it helps.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by DarkFlow » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:31 am


I can confirm that after 3k miles with a pillion and luggage and being considerably over the 430lbs/195kg maximum weight recommendation that this bike is much easier to ride to a similarly laden zzr1400 or hayabusa. This bike doesn't in my opinion, suffer from lack of low down torque viz a viz the aforementioned, in spite of what the dyno figures may or may not show
. Those higher and wider bars make a world of difference to the handling. Apart from the pillion seat being a touch on the high side its a well designed bike with decent sized factory panniers. It's a great bike and should be appreciated not berated by some owners for lack of performance. It's simply not the case. My other steed is a 285rwhp H2. 35 years, every incarnation of kawasaki in line fours and gsxrs. This bike has them all beat.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by DarkFlow » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:34 am


And the same goes for the very latest boxer, the shift cam 1250. Doesn't hold a candle to the SX engine.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by Bengarzy » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:02 pm


Wellllll, I’m with McNulty here..........I find the S/C more like a turbo..... on my bike at the MOMENT, key word I hope, it’s not impressive at all below 6k, all my other litre bikes have been better at those revs even though they were only 70+ ft lbs of torque. Maybe as they were lighter they felt more flexible...... we will see, re flash and limits removed, exhaust flap disabled, filter and can this Wednesday. I wasn’t expecting to do all this with a blower fitted as standard but as no fault can be found I am assuming they are all like this and need to improve things.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by DarkFlow » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:45 pm


I agree, in a way it's indifferent low down, that's off the stop low down. In the same way I used to think the hayabusa was weak at similar revs. A quick look at 0-60 and other performance figures will show this bike is hardly any quicker than others in its class so I'm not sure how people find themselves disappointed come ownership. Clearly if there's a fault then fair enough. Hopefully those mods. you mention will do the trick as their bound to make a significant difference. Hope it works out.
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Re: What's the point of the supercharger?

Post by Zdude » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:07 pm


All I know Bengarzy is that I have had a turbo-bike, a ZX12R with 1260 turbo pistons and tuned by a guy in Cleveland, Ohio called Motorhead, a turbo guru. My turbo bike was probably faster from 100 to 200 mph but from lower rpms there was significant turbo lag that makes this bike feel like a brute. I have had many 1000cc bikes and none felt as strong as this machine but as I always tell people, this bike is very deceptive in the way it builds power, very linear. Will it throw you off if you slam the throttle wide open at 3 or 4 grand, no, but the only bikes I've had that were total brutes at those rpms were V twins, actually Buells as my 1098 Ducati Streetfighter was more like a inline 4 in some ways with maybe a little more low end but still it was V twin. I think the way Kawasaki spread the torque out on this bike is magical and also believe it will hold up better than if they increased boost too much at lower rpm, too much strain on a motor this size. I have seen where Bear Racing in South Africa I believe, offers some possibilities to re-gear the supercharger on H2's that might work on these bikes too. Possibly increasing lower boost but that would probable require some careful tuning and even possibly racing fuel to avoid detonation issues. I'm certainly no expert on blowers but I know a lot of people blow motors too pieces if they reach for too much boost, specially with compression ratios like what our bike have. IMHO, Kawasaki couldn't have hit target much better with this machine unless they lowered the weight some, Carbon Fiber wheels and such but then cost goes way up.
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